#83 Facing Your Demons of the Abyss

This week on Nonsense in the Chaos, we're venturing into the abyss.

Not the dramatic, mythic kind filled with monsters and ancient gods... but the very real places within ourselves we'd rather avoid.

For me, the demon waiting in the dark is money.

The stories I carry about worth, security, success and scarcity have a habit of resurfacing whenever I think I've finally made peace with them. Yet every descent into the underworld offers the same invitation: to stop running, turn around, and meet what is chasing us.

Together we'll explore what it means to face our personal demons, why the abyss so often appears before transformation, and how the things we fear most can become our greatest teachers.

So what waits for you in the dark?

Join me as we step into the depths and discover what treasures might be hidden there.

The music and artwork is by @moxmoxmoxiemox

Nonsense in the Chaos is available on all podcast platforms or you can listen to it here… https://nonsenseinthechaos.buzzsprout.com 

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Transcript

0:57

Welcome to the Nonsense in the Chaos. I'm your host, Jodie Rose It's a gray, dismal day, but it feels good to have a bit of time out from the sunshine. Because on Sark it feels like when it's sunny, you have to put everything down and go be in the sun. And the, you know, the, the heatwave that we had recently was far too hot to do anything practical. But, uh, where it started to turn and when it started to go gray and wet, I took the opportunity to decorate my studio. So those of you watching on the video can see that I now have a decorated studio. I've got a big blue circle in the background, and I've painted a diagonal one side of the room on the diagonal Yves Klein blue, which is my favorite blue. So Yves Klein, as an artist, was perfecting the color blue, but it was actually off the back of being really interested and obsessed with martial arts and the elements, and it was fire that he was actually trying to capture. So he did loads of work in gold leaf and, like fluttering gold leaf on canvases. And then this rose pink, which is the part of the flame, the rose pink part of the flame. And then he was capturing the blue, and then he got completely obsessed with the process of perfecting blue and, um, patented, like paint techniques that really captured color and depth, and w- that's why I'm able to have this, this color on my wall is because of the techniques that he developed. And he perfected this blue, which is basically cobalt blue. It looks like cobalt blue, but it's so deep and almost purpley. It just... It, it... Your eyes fall into it. It's amazing. And so where I've got the diagonal, one corner of my room looks like it just disappears. It looks infinite. I love it. And I grew up in a bedroom quite similar to this. So I grew up in a bedroom as a teenager that, uh, was black and white, but, um, diagonally crossing where the dot is on my wall here. So on the main middle wall of my bedroom as a child the b- the lines crossed, and where it crossed there was this sort of African eye, and the bits that were in the black were white, and the bits in the white were black. And then that went up over the ceiling, and then I had a moon and stars in white in the black part of the ceiling. And then I had, uh, I had this walk-in wardrobe that was there for most of my teenage years, and then when I turned 18, the room got a bit of a... Oh, no, it wasn't 18, it was 15. 'Cause I left... It must've been 15, 'cause I left home at 18 and moved to Australia. So yeah, I think it was 15. I had the, um... No. So it would've been my 16th, 'cause it was definitely a, an important birthday. So for my 16th birthday, the wa- the wardrobes got ripped out, and then the walls that were there, and it's when IKEA had just come out and IKEA was a new thing, and IKEA used- a lot, especially when it first opened, it used a lot of this Yves Klein kind of blue, and it had these, like, drop-down tier lights that were, um, misty blue glass. So I got them for the middle of my room, and then I got the Yves Klein blue paint that was available at the time and painted the walls where the, um, walk-in wardrobe had been. And so I had this kind of blue corner And it's funny, isn't it? 'Cause when you're a teenager, time's so much more expanded and stretched, and it felt like I had that room for ages, but I was only there two years before I then left home and moved to Australia. But it, yeah, those two years felt like a long time. So and I lived there with my boyfriend. I had a fiancé, um, who proposed to me when I was, uh, 16, 15, 16. I think we got together when I was 15, but he was six- I was 16 when he proposed to me, and we were engaged for two years. And, um, he was my first, first proper boyfriend, and he used to live with me in that room, and then we used to also live at his parents'. We kind of lived between each other's houses. So I sort of felt like I'd left home a bit before I actually did. Then, yeah, went off to Australia. And then when I was in Australia, I went to the Yves Klein exhibition. So I think, I didn't know, yeah, in terms of the order of things, I think I was drawn to the color of the blue that IKEA was using, and I really liked it. And then when I was in Australia, my, my best friend, um, Dennis, who me and Saffron, like we were the t- terrible threesome, um, growing up. And Dennis is an incredible lady. She's had a real huge life. In fact, it'd be awesome to interview Dennis 'cause she's had such an amazing life. That's a really in- good idea. I'm definitely gonna do that, actually. Um, she, uh, was living with me in Australia. We moved to Australia together, and she knew about Yves Klein. She was from a very cultured, artistic family, and, um, told me to go to this exhibition, and we went, and it was so good. The whole exhibition space was white, and then you had some of the gold and some of the rose pink, but most of it was this blue. But just things like natural sponges dipped in the blue or canvases covered in the blue. And then he did lots of work with, um, texture. And so I-- the round spot behind me on the wall, what I'd like to do is actually make that into a 3D textured, uh, sculpture of the moon using plaster, and then paint it blue again, and then put a rim of LED lights around the edges so it lights up, and so there's actually like a big blue moon behind me, which would be awesome. Um, but yeah, he, I, uh... And it, the exhibition was done so well 'cause you had the headphones that people walked around listening to, and they told you a bit about what was going on, but mainly it was, um, really sort of funky, beautiful jazz music. And so it stopped people from talking 'cause I think if it was just being piped through the space, it would be different. The fact it was on your ears and you were walking through the exhibition with these, uh, uh... 'cause it must have been, it must have been that there was an order that it was, we were going round 'cause there were bits where it was telling you about the martial arts, and it was telling you these quotes. 'Cause one of the quotes I remember was, "First there was nothing, then there was void, then there was blue." And, and it, and you know, I was 18. I still remember that now. And- And just feeling like I could fall into these canvases. And I, I loved the concept of an artist perfecting a color, you know, rather than trying to perfect painting the female form or all the other things that artist do. It was the fact that it was trying to perfect a color. A th- that was like, ah, that's really cool. I really, um, I think that was probably when I sort of first started to get what actual art is, which is creativity, it's curiosity, and that anything is art, even perfecting a color is art. And yeah, so been sort of phil- philoso- philosoph- philosophi- philosophizing. There you go. Got there in the end. Philosophizing a lot this week and weekend. It's been the Sagittarius full moon. I had a lovely interview with AJ last week. She sent me lots of interesting things to look at, been mulling over. And, um- And was revisiting my relationship with money because it occurred to me that six months ago we had this sort of surprise Sagittarius dark moon that was the lead up to New Year's Eve. Normally, you'd have a Capricorn dark moon, and that's a very, uh, understandable dark moon to have at that time of year, 'cause dark moon's all about setting an intention, and Capricorn is m- methodical, it's led by Saturn, so it's all about, like, long-term planning, uh, foundations. You know, what's the mountain we're gonna climb this year as a goat? How are we gonna get up this mountain? What, what's the steps that we're gonna put in place? Like, it's, it's the planning star sign. So it makes sense that that's the one that you get before New Year. But because of the, the way the, the moons fell moving round the calendar, it was just the Capricorn full, uh, dark moon was, uh, after New Year's Eve, it was in January, and Sagittarius dark moon was the one that we had before Christmas. And so that, to me, suggested being more, like there was something else that we needed to explore or, like, really shoot for the stars. So it was a bit less... Uh, like Capricorn would be like, "Okay, now how are you gonna do that?" But the Sagittarius dark moon being just before New Year is like, "Okay, what's, what we gonna really go for?" And, and this was a 10-year where we're turning our lead into gold, and for me, my biggest lead, my heaviest lead was, is money, and that has always been. And then I said that's what I was gonna explore. I was gonna explore the mythos of gold. And I burnt, um, some money, and then my whole life transformed. And I, you know, with any offering, like with the pilgrimages, you don't and cannot do them for something. Y- you can't go into it thinking it's, "I'm doing this for something." You just do it. You just do it as offerings. It's the same with the fairy tree, um, that I have here on Sark. I make things for the fairy tree. I leave things there. Um, I don't do it for a reason. I do it just because it's a lovely thing to do, and it's for the fairies. Um, it's an offering for the fairies. And- Yeah, so I've just been trusting and following where the universe has led me in response to offerings that I've made. So moving to Sark and forever moving closer to this valley that we're now in. And yeah, the, the relationship to place and people and community, all of this, and the love, you know, this amazing love that I've been absolutely blessed to have and experience. It's been, it's been an amazing journey, and has felt like beautiful, complicated gifts. They're not just like happy ever after fairytale gifts. They come with their own sets of puzzles and problems and, you know, difficulties and obstacles. But it definitely feels like a higher version of me, um, uh, with hi- higher or lighter and more brighter and more sparkly problems and obstacles. You know, everything feels more interesting in a way. yeah, it's, it's like an ongoing process. And have burnt this money in this time six months ago, and in the last six months my whole financial world has completely changed, and I'm now a 47-year-old with no mortgage with a four-bedroom house. Like no one saw that coming. And, it's meaning, it doesn't mean anything, and it means so much as well. Like it's, it's meant that my, uh, relationship to money has to now be different. I can't, even though I'm still on 12 pound an hour working in a pub, I'm in a completely different situation than I was before just through... And it just was so out of nowhere. So, so it's interesting that that's what happened. and Where to go from here now next. And then I burnt some more money on the Sagittarius full moon. Again, not with any intention, not with like, "Oh, and now what?" You know, like a- in fact, actually, I had a conversation with gold, so I riffed with gold beforehand where you write down, um, and chat with an entity, and I chatted with gold. And the gold said to me, like, "There's the outer world, but there's the inner world's gold as well, and what actually is your biggest gold and what's your biggest lead in the inner world?" And then the next morning I had an email, and the email was regarding financial, like, o- skeletons in my closet that need dealing with or have needed to be dealt with that are i- like icky, like things that make your blood run cold. But it's something that I kinda knew was there, and I thought I'd kind of got away with, um, but also was a bit uncomfortable with and knew it wasn't, like, quite right. And, and it's come back. It's come out of nowhere as well, which is also a little bit like, oh, has someone, dobbed me in? Because it doesn't really make sense that this has been asked it's a little bit, um, suspect that they've done it. I'm a bit, I'm a bit, uh, quizzical as to why it's come up. So yeah, it's put me in a bit of a position where I'm gonna have to be honest, and in a way it's good because it was, it was something that was lead. It's something that was in my closet that felt leaden. Even though literally haven't done... You know, the things that it was regarding have all happened and have come to pass and have been done properly and to the T and, um, legitimately and, and actually, you know, more than that, huge, beautiful, big, wonderful things have happened, um, that were meant to happen, and I'm pleased with them and proud of them, and it's really good that they happened. But it needs to be cleared up, and hopefully by me being honest and, and admitting, things won't go as badly as they possibly could. So I've just gotta trust, I've gotta trust the universe, but also it just feels very apt that it came about straight after burning the money, and it feels like, yeah, you know what? You're right. Like, it, it was easy. It would've been easy for me to retreat into... the fear and the, the blood running cold that I felt a- reading the email is my old, demon of the abyss, and that demon of the abyss is actually, what the, Sagittarius moon represented. So in terms of the tarot cards that, uh, the, um... In fact, actually I'm gonna check Yeah, the Art card. Interesting. So the tarot card that is associated with Sagittarius in the Thoth deck is the Art card. in the Rider-Waite deck that would be Temperance. The art card, um, is l- it's really interesting. So the art card is an image of a being split in two, like my bedroom, pouring two different potions into a cauldron with a, like a lion and a dragon or a gargoyle or something watching on either side. and they're ma- they're doing alchemy, which is what art is. Art is making something out of nothing. And that is what this money was related to, is to do with art. It's interesting. That's really interesting Oh, that's sh- yeah, okay, that sort of blew me away a little bit. and that's number... I can't remember what the number is, um, associated with it, but if you add that up with the High Priestess card, which is the card for the moon, it makes 63, and the number 63 means rolling over, and then also, demon of the abyss. So it's like what, what needs rolling over? What is it that you need to just let go of and shed and move on? And then also, what are the demons that have returned that you thought you'd dealt with, and what's come up that needs working on and, and, clearing? And Sagittarius is very much about truth. It's interesting 'cause it's not ruled by Mercury, it's ruled by Jupiter, so it's all about being expansive and expanding. But it's interesting that, it almost feels like a Mercury retrograde, like this full moon that's just been, the amount of arguments and, like just kerfuffle that happened at the pub and with people. But loads of, truth came out about people cheating on people, and all sorts of relationship stuff came out, over this moon. But all of it is gonna mean that people will live more expansive lives 'cause they're gonna be living in a truth now. Like, the, even the person who did the cheating doesn't have to lie anymore or live behind that lie anymore. They can move on, and it's a bit like how I feel about what's happened with this, So, um, another thing that's coming up for me that I feel is a strong feeling for me is, uh, so I'm here, and I'm in the house, and I want to do things here, and I want to create stuff and bring people here and work with the valley more, and I wanna be getting in and out into the work with the valley. I'm feeling like the next project, that I want to get sorted is building a, A cob, um, fireplace and fire seating area outside with a pizza oven, but also with an altar. And I want to be able to start, like, sitting outside and holding my ceremonies and things outside, 'cause it's nice to have this room and the backdrop, and it all looks lovely. But, I also feel like it's time to start doing some things outside in the valley more, 'cause this valley feels important. And then, yeah, the work that I'm doing, I've done a lot of stuff online, but I'm just wondering whether it's time to start moving it into the physical world. I've been, uh, advertising and talking about the Witch Fool Are You course, and I've only had one person sign up to it. And last year I didn't run it either 'cause no one really signed up to it. And last year I just kinda kept it quiet because I thought, uh, 'cause I actually had quite a few people saying, "I can't do it this year, but I will do it next year." So I was like, "Well, okay, I'll keep quiet that it didn't happen, and I'll just, um, advertise it again next year." But I've only had one person get in touch about doing it this year. And so now I'm like, okay, so I think that the price is totally reasonable. I've, I, you know, and I've struggled with doing things before where I'll put it too cheap or I'll make it so cheap that people don't sign up for it. I mean, I, maybe I need to reduce the price. It's really difficult. It's difficult because people... I see other courses and other things where people are charging way more than what I'm charging, and, and one of the things that I've been trying to do myself is to, value myself more, you know, and to say, "Look, I'm worth this." If I put a, a lower price on it, it will look like I'm not, as experienced as I am, and this is like eight years I've been doing this now. I am really experienced. The Witchwood E-course is, it is g- really good. I really enjoy doing it, and I'm, and, um, I see huge, uh, effects from it. So I don't want to belittle it by then reducing the price. And there are cheap... You know, there are pa- payment plans and, um, lower paying spaces available, um, on it. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know whether it should n- I need to change the format and bring people here. That sort of feels like maybe it would be more useful if I did do that. And yeah, I don't know. But obviously also if I did that, I'd have more expenses and so that changes things. But it, yeah, it feels like things need to shift up a little bit or now I'm here, I change what I'm doing slightly and how I've been doing it because, yeah, it's not, something's not quite working with that. and, and it's such an important offering that I offer. Like for me, I- it's something that I don't wanna stop doing like, "Oh, no one's interested in it then," because I've seen... Well, in myself I know how much I've got out of doing it and, um, it, it's been profound, you Um, so yeah. Um, I don't know. Don't know the answer to that. And that I think probably means it's time to read a rune If you enjoy this podcast, then do consider supporting me on Patreon, which is patreon.com/joelyrose. I was listening to Blindboy's podcast today, who's amazing and is one of my favorite podcasts. In fact, it, I mean, his, it is my favorite podcast. There used to be two. One was, uh, We Can Be Weirdos, and the other was Blindboy. But, uh, sadly We Can Be Weirdos has stopped. It's finished, and I'm absolutely gutted 'cause I it, that probably was my favorite. I love Blindboy as well. Blindboy is slow and lilting and so smart and, and makes my... He really soothes my, um, being, listening to him, because my career's kind of run parallel to him a little bit and I have had quite a lot of interactions with him over the years. He wouldn't know about it. Um, I was the background to Tourette's Hero, um, who was, uh, he will, he'll remember Tourette's Hero. But, um, I was the producer, and I was the cat nun in the performance of Backstage in Biscuit Land, which toured, uh, Edinburgh the same time when Blindboy was part of, Rubberbandits, and they were there performing. And so when he's talking about his old performances and his journey, I've been there alongside him for it, and I've been at many of the places that he's talking about. And, he's absolutely smashing it and is doing really well, and, and I have done what I've done, which isn't there's no such thing as failure. It's, um, it's been my journey, and it's been an incredible journey, and I've done loads of amazing things, and I'm, I'm grateful for every second of everything that's happened in my life 'cause it's amazing. And I also know that people w- would listen to me or watch what I do and be really envious of what I do. And I, I always just think back to the, um, the sunscreen song, Wear Sunscreen, which is my bible. Like, that is literally what I refer back to when, whenever I'm lost, I suppose. And, uh, it says in that, "Remember the race is long, and in the end it's only with yourself." And comparison is the thief of joy, which is what my mentor always said, who I'd also love to interview, but she doesn't want to be interviewed, which is really annoying. Um, but the amazing Andrea Brooks, she, uh, she always says, "Comparison is the thief of joy." And It, it is, and that, that's the point. Like, we're not... There is no validation in success. We're, uh, Blind Boy's podcast this week is beautiful for this exact subject, which is all about, like, I'm no better than other, any human being, and no human being is better than me. And we're all little toddlers. And the, um, if you remember that you're a little toddler, and that's what your artist is. No toddlers are better than each other. They're all just playing in the play pit, being themselves and cracking on, and, and that's what we are. You know, that's what the kingdom of heaven is apparently. When you enter the kingdom of heaven, you enter as a toddler. And I love that. And he, um, you know, in terms of, uh, ADHD-ness or, you know, being neurodivergent, he also gives so much great advice and support. And one of the things he said this week, which was really interesting, is that podcasts are being pushed to be video. Now, I do record mine as a video, but it's because it's no skin off my nose. It doesn't change my editing software process. It can be filmed, and I can edit it. And, um, the video's for people who support me on Patreon as an, an extra, but it's not, um, a- an issue for me to do it. But, uh, it's primarily an audio podcast. Like, that's what I'm creating. And we are being pushed, that everything's being pushed for us to be video, which I don't, I honestly don't know why they're doing that because I don't watch video hardly at all. I hardly use YouTube. If I can watch a short thing on, um, Instagram showing me how to put something up or do something rather than having to watch, like, a 5, 10-minute video on YouTube, I will do that. Even though I make quite long YouTube videos for me doing the cards readings each month, I'm like, if someone wants to watch it, they can watch it. I'll video myself doing it 'cause I'll be doing it anyway. I know I could make it shorter and make it more into an Instagrammy short thing. But, God, do you know, the amount of time it takes to do all these things, it's ridiculous. Like, what are we... You know, what are we here to do? Like, if I spent all my time doing that, then what I would really be is a content creator person rather than the priestess, pilgrim, l- nature following person that I am. Like, I don't wanna spend all of my time in front of a screen making things work on a screen. So I do what I can, and I try and learn the, the tricks and play along with things. But this is one that I can't get behind. We are audio... I mean, I listen to my audiobooks and, um, audio podcasts while I'm doing other things. I don't wanna be having to look at it. I'm not going to look at it. If I'm ever at a point where I'm gonna look at something, I will be looking at a book. I don't wanna be watching a long video. Or I'll be watching telly and a film, you know? And it's, it's something where I'm really switching off. It's not... I don't want, um, this kind of content on a big screen, sitting watching something that I could be listening to. So as Blind Boy pointed out Is to support your audio podcasts. by following, by, um, sharing, by telling people about them, by supporting their Patreon if you can. If you enjoy audio podcasts and it's something that you want to keep going, then support it. You need to make them happen because the algorithms are gonna be starting to push us down. just to fight against them 'cause they've obviously just decided because it's easier to advertise and sell products through that they've decided that they wanna push video and that's bullshit. So yeah, support me if you can and if... And you know, it can be financially or it can be through word of mouth or it can be through, sharing online, all those sorts of things. Following, liking, all that kind of thing. So thank you for being here. Thank you for supporting me. Uh, we have got the Witchful Are You workshop still being advertised. If no one else signs up for it, I need at least three people for it to be able to really run. because it, part of it's group work support and if that's not happening then I'm not gonna be able to run it. it is brilliant and I'm not just saying that. I, I would be sad to not do it again 'cause I didn't do it last year. And, um, it's changed my life in so many ways. Like if you wanna know how or where or why I am confident and s- and self-knowing in the way that I am, it's because of this work and it's work that is from a very long lengthy process of, flipping heck how long? Since 2007, so 20 years now nearly I've been doing this work and it was through Jonathan Kay and doing the fooling training with the, um, uh, Nomadic Academy of Fools, training as a fool and learning about archetype and working with archetype and discovering and learning my inner world. I mean, one thing I will probably do in the future is do, um, circle plays and that's something I do physically here and that's another element from fooling that's the deepest work we do. But the deepest work we do is, is circle plays and archetypal work and I took that element of it and I created the Witchful Are You course and it's been so powerful and the people I know who, who've done it are now like high priestesses running covens and, or have, have, um, changed gender or you know, all sorts of things. Like they've stepped into being themselves in a way that they weren't before and it's so powerful and I'm, yeah, a bit confused as to why it seems to have died off in the last couple of years. Um, but It's an offering. If you want to come and do it, then, uh, please do. Um, I, I will run it if there's enough people doing it. Um, I also have a creative writing workshop happening in Sark as part of the Creative Sark Week, and that's coming up in June. It's on... And that's gonna be a, a day writing about nature, and we're gonna go immerse ourselves in nature. Uh, the 9th of June, so that's next Tuesday. Um, so if you're in the Channel Islands, if you're in Guernsey and you fancy signing up for that, then it would be amazing to have you come along, and we'll spend the day immersing ourselves in nature and learning about nature writing. And what else? Anything else coming up? I think that's it for the moment. going to be at Boomtown, doing the opening ceremony again. Hopefully, maybe on the big- the bigger stage. There's a new big stage, which is even bigger than the stages I've been on already, and I think we might be on that, the Lion's Den stage. So that would be exciting. so if you're gonna be at Boomtown, come and see us at, at the opening ceremony. And other than that, on with the show Interesting. So I don't, haven't pulled this rune very often. It's courage. It's the M. So it looks like an M, and it is actually the letter E in the rune alphabet, Eoh, Eohas? Eohas, I think it is. And it's about the horse kind of with its blinkers on, being steadfast and moving forward. So it's about being brave, being courageous, and just keep going. Keep moving forward, like stubbornly keep treading your path. And what that feels like with me, with what I'm doing is, yeah, like, I feel a bit, oh, what am I gonna do? What am I doing? What do I do now? Like, I feel like I've got the place sorted. There's still things that I want to do but yeah, where, what do I do? And I, it's just to just keep going. So keep going. Things like get the fire pit built, put the word out like I have done about possibility doing circle plays, doing Witchful E maybe in person rather than online. You know, it does mean that you've got to get here. It makes it, will make it even more expensive than it's gonna be online. But it's a different way of doing it, and part of what is so amazing about where I've ended up being is that it's so beautiful that maybe that's part of what the offerings should be or need to be is to be like, "Come here. Come spend time here and immerse yourself in Sark," whilst we also do the Witchful E course or circle plays. And, um, I wanna call them sar- sarcle plays that look a bit sparkly, so it looks like sparkle, but sarcle. Sarcle plays. circle plays are where you hold a circle. So with, um, Jonathan Caine, the Fools, it was the most profound work that we did, and, and you definitely needed to be courageous with this work. It was terrifying. But you sit in a circle, and we spend a long time working through each person's quest 'cause you're going on a quest ion. So it's about you going on a quest into the inner world, and it's so powerful. It's the most powerful thing I've ever done, over Ayahuasca, over any m- any of the spiritual whatevers that are out there. This is the biggest thing I've ever done by far. It's just you, sober, uh, working on your, your question. What's your question? So say at the moment my quest ion might be, um, uh, where is my gold? And then we work on each other's questions to untwist it. So the untwisting of where is my gold might be what, what is, what is gold? What is my gold? Or, uh, who has my gold? Or, and you kind of wait until it sort of hits an emotional gong. Um, I mean, Who Has My Gold? did a bit there. That, that hit a gong, and it actually made me already see that I might go in there and I might find my father with the gold because for me, my, my deepest wound, my greatest pain is my parents splitting up, and it was, um, over money f- as far as I'm concerned. It isn't necessarily, that's not the truth. I spoke to my mom about this and, and also based on his, uh, behavior and actions post my parents splitting up. Uh, he probably was going to leave at some point anyway 'cause it is kind of a, a habit of his. Um, but at the time my story was my dad left because of money, money is bad, and I'm not good enough, and I w- I'm not as good as money and I'm not good enough, and that shows in everything I do. Like all of the conversation I'm having here about money, it's still, it's still the thing that's my biggest puzzle. Uh, I'm not good enough and I'm n- I'm not as good as money. I wasn't worth staying for. And it was the recession, it was my dad's company going under. He'd taken some risks. He'd become a computer programmer when all of it was new, and he chose the kind of beta versus VHS. He chose the sort of beta program, computer programming language that didn't end up being the one that survived out of the ones that were... You know, it wasn't, um, DOS. It was another one. And he lost everything and he got himself in quite a lot of debt, like taking risks to, to move us from a council house into a Wimpy housing estate house and got a better car. He basically upgraded our lives a bit beyond his means, and then when the recession hit, lost everything. And I just remember him headbutting the wall and headbutting the steering wheel of the car and setting the car horn off and all the neighbors looking out their curtains and, you know, it was just... And then he went off with my drama teacher. And drama's my thi- you know, theater's my thing, and so theater's always had this sort of bitter sweetness to it. Like, I always wanted to make it as an actress and make it as a, a performer, and then- Very much like I've always been involved in theater and it's always been part of my life, but it also bites me all the time. I mean, that's what's also happening right now. The, the bite that I'm currently getting is via the arts and via the theater that I've been making, and it's painful. You know, I... For me, my relationship to theater is continuously painful, annoyingly. And my relationship to money is continuously negative even. And but, but what I was saying to the ladies last night, 'cause I held a women's circle here last night at my house on Sark and it was brilliant. We really needed it. All of us really needed it. We all had a lot to share. We hadn't seen each other for a while and, and it was brilliant, uh, really needed. And what, what the upshot of all of it was, whatever your thing is, it's not about getting rid of it. It's like the horse, and the courage, and the looking forwards, and being steadfast. Is it's about you continually working on that issue. Like, my eternal, um, judgment is I'm not good enough, and it's because of my relationship to money, and that will always be there. It's just that it will keep being looked at from different perspectives and coming at it from different angles. I'm now a 47-year-old woman with a four-bedroom house and no mortgage, and I'm on 12 pound an hour, and I'm not a famous actress. And yet I'm still making theater, and I'm still working in a performative way, and I'm using my performance skills to make something and do something. Sorry, and I just went off on all of that instead of doing the circle play. So the circle play would basically be me going and performing that, physically doing it, and everything I just did was all from the place of thinking. So that was the thinking, that was me telling the story, but that's probably what would've visibly come out in the performance. So I'd start performing that. Like, "What do you see?" "Oh, I see, I see my dad head-butting the wall." Um, so then I would play my dad. So the circle would support you to then do the thing. So it's like, "Right, now be your dad. Now be the wall." And by being the wall and being my dad, I would find freedom and movement within that story that doesn't exist. So what I just told you, which is from my thinking from the outer world, is the, the story I'm perpetually captured within. It's my judgment. It was where the twist twisted, and it's been there ever since, and I will always be living through that, and I have the story that I've just regurgitated. You've probably heard me say it a million times on the podcast. But when you work within, within the circle play, I would play the table, I would play the computer program system, I would play the, the computer. I would... The Amstrad on the desk. I would play the, um, I'd play the neighbors looking through the window. I'd play the car horn. You would play all the bits, and in doing so, you discover different ways of looking at the story that are not what you have been living through all these years, and it's so powerful. And the other thing that can happen is you can not see anything and you can freeze. But when you do that, you, over time, 'cause if you do that every time you get up, over time you realize what your... And, and you might not see it, but it would be afterwards w- the people in the circle are not there as an audience, we're there as witnesses So we witness you, and we feed back what we've seen. And like there were some people who, it w- basically everyone had a completely different defense mechanism. So some people, it was like they were in a hall of mirrors. They just couldn't, and it, bless them, that person was trying to hide from the fact they were gay. Um, and we were working with them for years, and it was so obvious they were gay, but they just didn't wanna be and wouldn't admit it, and were fighting it every step of the way. And because they were so preoccupied with that, they couldn't be present. They couldn't do anything else. Um, so they were all Like every time we were turning up at a venue to do a piece of work at a workshop or whatever it was, you'd open the door, and they'd go running past in the wrong direction 'cause they were lost, and they were late. And they, they just were always lost. They were always late. They were always getting locked in courtyards 'cause they shut the door behind them, and there was no way to get through the next door, and then they were just locked in a courtyard. And, and like just all the time, that's what happened to them. And then there was someone else who was just massive and clumsy like a giant bear. And then there was someone else who was like this screaming banshee on a mountain, and she just was always like lost in this melodramatic And if there was a big red button, she'd push it. And then someone else who was like a, a maelstrom of dust. They always reminded me of that character from Peanuts the dirty boy that's just a dust storm. Like, there was someone else who was like that. And it's, it's amazing because you start to see people in this 3D way where you can see the puzzle that they've put around themselves as a protective, um, structure, and they're all slightly different, and that's part of their inner world. But then when you drop that, and you let yourself just breathe, and the main trick to it, and the main way of all of these things like with the horse, and like with pilgrimage, and with all these things, is to just move. And that's what I feel magic and spells are, is putting one foot forward, doing something physical, and making something happen in action which moves things forward. And therefore, you then start doing. So with circle plays, literally just start moving. Start moving, and then you're moving, and then it goes into body, and it stops being in the head, and it becomes embodied, and the movement becomes something If you just stand there and wait to see something, your head will be like, "I can't see anything," and then you, you won't be able to do it. Um, so it's an amazing process because watching other people, you see what they do, you see how they fuck it up, or they, they fuck themselves over, and you see how amazing it is when they share, and you see how every single person has a different flavor, and that everyone's inner worlds are different. And then you start going, "Oh, that's got that flavor. That's that sort of flavor. That's that archetype. Oh, that's what that archetype is. That archetype has that flavor, and they belong to that, and that person's got a bit of it as well. That person's is completely different. That person has this whole other flavor going on." And that's how you then learn about archetypes. And, you know, I did that work for- I've been... I'm still doing it now. It's still part of my, my practice is that, and so I've been doing that 20 years, and, um, yeah, pretty mega. It's pretty mega stuff, and I love it, and it is about being courageous, and it's about putting one foot in front of the other, put one hoof in front of the other, and just keep going and trust. And so yes, let's come up with a chaos crusade My chaos crusade I haven't thought of anything to say. Oh, look, okay. So exactly what I just said, start moving. Okay. Well, there you go. That's the chaos crusade. Some- something where you are stuck, somewhere where you feel like you're stuck to do a movement surrounding it. So, and for me, I will do this around money, to do something. So it might be to send an email. Like I, I have received this email and, um, it's confronting and it's scary and part of me is like, I could just not respond to it. I mean, have they got... They've, Do they know where I live? All they have is my email address. I could, I could block them and I could just ignore them and just see what the repercussions are and, and the repercussions might be that I can't go to these people for funding again, but I already know I can't go to them for funding again because my circumstances have changed and I, I know I'm definitely staying here. I'm not applying there anym- more anyway, so I could just not respond to them and there is that option. But the universe appears to be telling me, because it came straight after me burning the money and because of me pulling this rune and because of the conversation that I'm having with you. Like, obviously this is icky, me talking to you about this stuff, but this is what, you know, I, I will always share with you. I'm an oversharer, but I'm sharing with you what, what my current situation is and what's going on, um, so that it hopefully is inspiring or helpful to you to look at what's going on in your life that's maybe really icky. Like this is icky, but this is my skeleton. It's not that bad. Like it's not like I've, killed someone or done something really awful. Like the, the biggest thing I've ever regretted in my life was I was a cleaning lady, uh, for a time in Brighton and I was cleaning for this lovely old lady and she once gave me a Christmas bonus, plus she was paying me for next week's clean because it was Christmas she was giving me the money up front, but there was some other reason. But anyway, I didn't go back. Like I, I got really messed up over Christmas because I had this extra money. I got completely trashed and then just was too broken to go the next week to clean and I just never went back and I felt so awful about that for the, forever. I mean, I only thought about it again recently, I think because of when this email come up, I was like, w- uh, this is the biggest skeleton in my pl- my closet. It's the one thing that the millionaires were able to hold over me, which is why I'm wondering whether I've been... Someone's said something, but I, it doesn't really make any sense 'cause I'm not sort of doing anything particularly, um cantankerous in the government at the moment. I mean, if anything, like, my term's coming to an end in November, and I'm sort of basically just hanging in there at the moment. I'm not really participating. I'm going to the meetings, but I'm not really, you know, I'm not putting my weight in a way, but I also have tried to leave three times, and I keep being m- made, made to stay um, because I've been too busy and because I'm putting on two more festivals next year. Like, I'm not... The only individual on this island that actually makes the island money properly, uh, that might not be true. Someone might be like, "Think about this person." But as far as, like, when I put on Beltane, I absolutely inject this economy with money, and the only other things that do that's, like, sheep racing, which is an old tradition that's been going on for 20 years, and the people who do it are part of a committee that is a rolling committee. Like, they haven't been doing it the whole 20 years. Um, and that's it. So I am the cash injection this island gets, and I'm doing that as an individual who's getting paid 12 pound an hour as a barmaid and, and then I'm also working voluntarily as, in the government. Like, I'm, I'm doing a lot, and then next year I'm putting on two more festivals, so I'm gonna be putting three cash injections into this island, and I'm an individual doing that off my own back. And, um, you know, and that's why I feel a bit annoyed and resentful about the money thing coming up with the skeleton, 'cause it's like, well, I still did the thing. I still delivered the thing. I still impacted hundred of, hundreds of people's lives, and I've, you know, done a really positive thing with that money. And- Yeah, so it's a part of me sort of is a bit annoyed and resentful about it, but at the same time, it's my thing that needs clearing up. So what needs clearing up? Like, is there a skeleton or is there something that you've just been putting off forever that feels icky? And is there an action that you can take that will help clear it up? And be brave, like, use the horse and the blinkers and the... Just be like, just make a move, like, in that circle play, go on that quest, and just do a thing to open stuff up and to move things forward. And I apologize if it goes on. Hopefully it doesn't, like, cause you massive, uh, difficult- I mean, I don't know what's gonna happen with this and, and part of me, like I said, wants to just press block and not respond to it, but I know that that, that's not what the universe is asking me to do right now, and so I have to put on my big girl pants, be brave, follow the horse rune, and send my email response saying, "Technically no, things were in flux. I wasn't 100% certain where I was going to be. Since I've known where I'm gonna be, I haven't been applying, but this is where I'm at." So yeah, and we hopefully, hopefully all will be well, but we'll see. Watch this space. I'll let you know, um, if I'm in- go to prison. No, not really. Um, I wouldn't be going to prison for it. It would just be a slapped wrist, but it, it's annoying. Um, yeah. Ah, such an over-sharer. If my husband heard me saying all of this, he'd be like, "What are you doing?" But, you know, I d- ugh, it's not even that I can say I trust you, I don't even know you, but I, I trust the process, I trust the universe, and I trust that this is meant to be happening, and it is. This is what's happening. This is what the Sagittarius, uh, truth sl- like the truth card in, um... There's an amazing Lisa Lister deck that I've got. Uh, it's her first ones, the Sassy She cards, and there's this truth card, and there's just this woman with a, a, a sword and she's just cutting through and she's really, like, "Rah." And she just will not put up with any shit. And Sagittarius and Scorpio are both that card. Like Sagittarius, uh, a- and interesting, my ex-husband and my brother and my best friend from back home, um, were all born on the Sagittarius-Scorpio cusp, so I know what that energy's like really well. It's very, right. They're always right. it's, it's, they know they are right, basically. but also just a, a not... They will cut through bullshit. Like if someone's lying or something, they'll call it out. They're people that are not scared to, to say the, say and do the hard things. Like all in different ways, they're all very different people, but they will... Yeah, some of them are more toxic in the way they do it than others, but they were very much that card, when I see this woman with a sword cutting through the bullshit. And that's what the energy, what I'm feeling from this Sagittarius dark moon and from what I've seen around me, relationships breaking up and all sorts of things. It's like, but it's better that, it's better that it's done, it's better that it's sorted out and you can move on, and you can move on to higher things. So here's to expansive, higher, bigger lives because of us dealing with our demons from the abyss. So with that, I shall see thee anon