#3 Fooling & the inner and outer worlds

In this week's episode of the Nonsense in the Chaos, a weekly podcast where I let the universe lead and take a 'Fool's leap' plunge into the unknown, I share about my ever deepening love of nature and the land, a relationship that's especially grown since embarking on a series of pilgrimages. I then pull a rune that leads me to a 'Runemation' on the archetype of the fool and what it teaches us about the inner and outer worlds.

The music and artwork is by @moxmoxmoxiemox

Nonsense in the Chaos is available on all podcast platforms. Please like, follow, and review. Also, please consider supporting the podcast by becoming a patron on my Patreon page... patreon.com/JolieRose.

You can get in touch with Jolie Rose on Instagram @kriyaarts or the Nonsense in the Chaos Page on Facebook. 

Hope you enjoy listening to this week's episode!

Transcript

0:03

The mountains and the caves. Wicked witches. Crusting the unknown. Um, uh, Hello, and welcome to the third episode in the Nonsense in the Chaos, a new podcast that explores the unknown and softens our fear of the unknown so that we can embrace the challenges and craziness of living on a lump of rock that's hustling through space. So I had such an amazing time interviewing Megan and that was a long time ago now. So I began this project over winter and was exploring how to make a podcast and, you know, trying to get the technical side of it working, sound quality, picture quality. All of that's quite difficult because I am living on this tiny little island in the middle of nowhere, which is an amazing place to be. But there are lots of things that make it really tricky things like not having cars. So moving equipment around is really difficult and not having the best Internet in the world. So hopefully I'm going to just keep working on improving what I can. I'm doing and hopefully improve the sound quality and improve, just improve what I'm doing. so that is the aim. So if you're happy to bear with me and support me on this journey, that'd be amazing, but I'm going to keep seeking to make it better. We are also, quite far into the year now. So it's June, no longer winter. So when I started this, it was part of a thing called I, I call creation hibernation. Which is over the winter months. I like to really lose myself in some sort of creative activity. This winter, I wrote a book, based on my pilgrimages and then also started working on this podcast. And then it had to take a back burner because I was getting married. So this is the second time I've been married. I talked about. My first marriage in the first episode and the journey I went on with IVF and a whole infertility journey. That was a really pivotal moment in my life, as was me going on the pilgrimages and then learning geomancy and learning that working with the land and working with nature created amazing things to happen. And one of the things that it led to was me moving to SOG and meeting the absolute most gorgeous human being I've ever known, my darling Dizzle, who proposed to me last year and then we got married on May the 4th, be with you, Star Wars day, at the beginning in the morning of, the Beltane Festival, which for those of you watching the video can see I'm wearing my hoodie, Beltane hoodie. This is a festival that I started in Sark last year with some friends and it's to celebrate the joys of Beltane because as someone who has completely head over heels in love with. nature with Mama Earth. I find Beltane, May, the beginning of May and that moment of bluebells and blossom and just everything coming to life is literally the sexiest, most beautiful thing in the world, along with my love for it. beautiful partner, who's quite fey like, I think that he's a changeling, and actually, there's a, the island witch, who was my predecessor, she's left the island now, there's a few, there's quite a few of us that are witchy on the island, but she was definitely like the, she held the mantle, she was an amazing artist, and she used to paint Pixies being naughty, naked pixies doing naughty things all over the Isle of Sark. And they look like Dizzle, my partner. And she lived just down the road from Dizz. And I said to her, like, did you realise how much your drawings look like Dizzle? And she didn't even know who he was. I mean, I'm sure she does know who he is, because she's been here the whole time. They literally live, minutes from each other. But she hadn't based them on him. there's a legend in the Channel Islands. there's a Rouge Rue road in Guernsey and there's a story that the, fairy folk started sleeping with the local women and they were producing tall, beautiful children and the men got angry and slayed all of the, fairies and there was a river of blood that ran down the Rouge Rue Diz is very tall and there's quite a few people that I'm friends with in the Channel Islands who are tall who are a bit fae like and I'm like oh maybe you're all changing he's got a really fey likeness about him and he has a very thin veil between the dreaming and this world. And he sees fairies and things like that, which I love. I find people's inner worlds fascinating, which is the whole point of this podcast is to explore the different ways that we experience reality. what I want is for the listeners, you, the listener to begin to see that. Reality is a very made up construct and that each of us have a unique parallel universe in a world that we're the guardian and gatekeeper to. And we're only here for a very short, finite amount of time. And when you die, when you pass on to whatever it is that happens next, your parallel universe that you're the gatekeeper to will disappear. And so the only way that anyone knows anything about that. universe is through how you share it. And that's through your creativity. It's the way that you behave in the world. And so your impact on the outer world and the ripples that you leave behind. and the things that you do, the physical things that you do. So you might not have created something as an artist, but you might have, had some kind of influence over how, a horse is shooed, or how a particular bakery bakes its bread, or whatever it is that you do, or even like the shop that you work in and people will remember you, you're meant to have two deaths, there's your physical death and then the day the last person who remembers you dies, and then that's it, and then you're gone. So, I think there's something about valuing your inner world as if you are a guardian or a gatekeeper. It's like you've got the keys to this amazing art gallery, museum space, storybook, that we will only get to hear about or know about. Because you've shared it in the short time that you've been alive. And so I'm really fascinated to drop into and explore different people's inner worlds and their realities. And also for us to then realize that we're all so different and unique. someone put on Facebook recently, do I know anyone who's not neurodivergent? And I actually don't think that anyone is. I think some people are better at pretending to be normal. I'm really not good at it. I find it so hard, and I think actually everybody does, but I do really struggle with small talk and having that kind of small talk conversation is something that I find really hard and it's something I've become more aware of from moving to the small island where not only am I exposed to different types of people, way more than I was in Brighton. I loved living in Brighton, but it was an echo chamber and it was an amazing experience to spend 20 years living in complete safety and security amongst like minded people. There's something so wonderfully challenging and inspiring and nourishing about being in what feels like an absolute cross section of society. So this little island that I'm living in. It's 500 people roughly. And it's got everyone from bin men to billionaires left wing and right wing. And for 500 people, there's enough of a diversity for most people. Protected groups to be represented and we all know each other and we all get on and it's like we're one big dysfunctional family. So it's not big enough for there to be like a gay scene that's separate. We're just all in amongst each other like the queer folk that are on the island are in amongst the absolutely Normally would be completely bigoted and anti gay or whatever We're all hanging out together and we're all friends and it's really weird it's like It is that, amazing thing of meeting your enemy and realizing that they're actually just normal people who are going about their lives, doing their best, trying really hard to, make ends meet, be loved, do the right thing. Like everyone's just the same. It's confirmation bias. Like so much of our views are based on our upbringing that, you know, it's just amazing. I find it so inspiring being in this community. And, that's part of the reason why I wanted to create the Beltane Festival, was to create something that maybe would still be going in 500 years time, that's our community, festival celebrating the beginning of spring. And this all came from me doing the pilgrimages, the word re indigenization came up from the pilgrimages, which was that we need to reclaim and re own our indigenous culture, because we were the first people to be colonized. So unless you are one of the landed gentry, living in the UK or the British Isles, you're one of the people that got colonized. And so. We had our folk traditions stripped away. We had our language. Like we actually were a, two caste system in the UK because you had the Saxons who were the conquered people who were then ruled by the Normans. And so the rich for, I mean, most of the land gentry today is still descended from the Normans and they spoke French and Latin. And then the Saxons, the poor people spoke Saxon. And that's why there's different words for. pig and pork. So pig is Saxon, pork is, French. beef, broth, is different to cow. So the shorter words tend to be Saxon, four letter words and smaller words tend to be Saxon, So we've lived in this kind of caste system for a long time and, Over the years from the Reformation and different things that happened, we had our folk traditions stripped away, and they've, you know, Being through control, because it's a way of controlling people. it's a lot harder to control a community than it is to control individuals and it's really hard to recreate community once it's been destroyed, when we were on the pilgrimages, the places that we passed through that felt like they were resilient going forwards into this unknown future that we have. They were the places that were galvanized and were working together and felt like they had each other's backs. And the other thing they were doing was paying attention to what was actually going on in terms of climate, looking after their land, taking care of their land. And a big part of what was helping people to do that was this idea of re indigenization where there were festivals, there was community gardens, there was people eating together, there were celebrations. There's a folk resurgence going on in the UK at the moment. folk performance is huge and mama's plays and, maple dancing and festivity days all over the country are kind of becoming a big thing again. so. Putting on a festival here was a way of us doing that here. And so we burn a wicker man and we have a May queen and we have Maypole dancing and we have Morris dancers and we have a summer fate during the day. And then it goes into being a music festival in the evening. And it's magical and everyone's in fabulous costumes. We had people in Star Wars costumes this year, and then people dressed as toadstools and fairies and it was just spectacular. And, me and Dizzle got married in the morning before the festival started. So we had this beautiful wedding just before everything kicked off. And it had been wintry cold and grey and miserable literally up to the Thursday. And then on the Friday, the day before the wedding, when most people turned up, the sun came out, the dolphins accompanied the boat, the ferry that everyone was on was accompanied by a huge, huge pod of dolphins that welcomed them to the island of Sark. They all came out and It was sunny the whole weekend they were there. And then just as they were leaving, it started to get drizzly again. So it was like just this beautiful window of suddenly it was summer, they were all camping and they were warm. It was beautiful. And obviously because it had been cold and it had been wet, everything just completely bloomed. Like the bluebells and everything just went for it. It was amazing. So it was almost like the island was showing off. And it is this thing with Geomancy. I just, it keeps happening. I mean, I sort of, I believe in everything and nothing, but my relationship to nature and the land and the way that she keeps getting involved with the stuff that I do and doing amazing things, I can't deny is happening. And my friend Cy came to the wedding and he's a taxi driver. and he's a geezer and he was just like, I don't believe in magic, but. You make it really hard not to, which I just thought was hilarious. And it's totally true. Like it was magic. It was absolutely magic. And we were, there was so many moments over the weekend that I'd look at Diz and we were just pinching ourselves like, what is going on? He's dressed as a wizard and he's absolutely beautiful. And there I am dressed as a fairy queen with fairy wing headdress on my head. We looked amazing. I had a horse and cart drive me in. Dressed with flowers and just everyone looked so spectacular. It was like being in a fairy magical film It was just extraordinary. So that's what's been going on at my end. And it's why this podcast has ended up sort of spreading over quite a long period of time I'm off to Glastonbury Festival and I'll also be off to Boonetown Festival and then going to a Tudor reenactment, which is something I've been doing since I was 10 years old, where there's about the same number of people, so about 500 people, so the same number of people as Sark, live as Tudors but we all dress up in Tudor costume and the public paid to come and see what Tudor life was like. And we're one of the only reenactors that do it in first person. So we're not saying this is what people used to do in the Tudor times. We're saying good day to the mistress. How are they? And we were speaking Tudor. so that's a really magical place, which was the reason why I escaped from Essex in the first place and also is the reason why I was drawn to Sark. A friend of mine moved here to do a summer job as a carriage driver and she worked at this Tudor reenactment with me. It's called Kentwell Hall and it's in Suffolk in Long Melford near Sudbury. And I'd known her since she was a teenager. And she came over to Sark and the second she got here she messaged me and said, it's just like Kentwell, you need to get over here. Part of the reason that I was drawn here in the first place, and that was five years ago, came to visit her, fell in love with it, definitely wanted to come and spend more time here. And then when my ex husband and I split up when I was on the first pilgrimage, I said to her, I think I'm gonna have Essex, which isn't something I wanted to do. And she said, no, you should come and live in Sark. Because it was during the pandemic. And there was houses that needed house sitting and she said, just come and live here. So I did. And I've been here ever since. And I live in this lovely cottage that's not even on a road. It's like in someone's garden. It's called the garden cottage. And we've got a dirt track nearby. That's the equivalent of a road for us. And yeah, live here with my partner and my two cats. And it's just glorious and magical. But yeah, it is quite an unusual lifestyle. so I am finding things to do and ways to create and, interact with the world. And so podcasting seems like a good one. I can get to share my unusual life with you all. and also all of the amazing people that I know, cause it's just ridiculous. like I was saying about this cross section where I know so many different types of people, I'd really like to try and capture that by. interviewing as many different, age groups and, life backgrounds as possible so that Yeah, just to get a, an experience of what these different universes are like that people live in. so I'm going to, be reaching out to a real mixture and variety of people. So yeah, I've gone from being, Jolie Pierce, which I mentioned in the first podcast, which meant obviously pretty transformation, because it was pretty, Pierce as in popping pierce, like piercing someone's ear. And then, my name has changed again. So when I started this podcast, I said on the first podcast, which meant pretty one who sleeps in the fields with the animals, which is pretty cool. And now I'm Jolie Rose, which means Pretty pink, but also, beautiful flower, beautiful rose. And the rose is a symbol of, a gateway to the centre of the universe in magic. So a rose, and also the number 666 is as well. So the number 666 is actually the number of human enlightenment enumerology, and it's sort of been, usurped and, sullied by the whole devil number thing. but actually It's the number of enlightenment. so yeah, it's almost like that's been stolen from us by having the devil kind of associated with it. And even the devil, like the devil card in tarot is, well, firstly, half of the symbols of the devil are feminine symbols and were symbols of the goddess beforehand. the color red obviously is very womanly. there's lots of womanly associations with the color red and the horns and the skull, like the women fallopian tube, the tail being snake like and serpent like and anything to do with the serpent. Women, writhe like serpents when they have sex and also the serpent and the dragon are associated with, the earth and nature So slaying the dragon and the, know, Serpent in the Garden of Eden is the symbol of Mother Earth when we walk the energy lines and lay lines of the UK, they're all associated with dragons and in China they're called dragon lines and then you've got the song lines with, Aborigine culture. So yeah, the sign of the dragon and the serpent comes up a lot and that's the devil's tail is this kind of serpent like tail and then even the clove and hooves look like a moon like a cleft moon. So they're all kind of goddessy symbols that make the shape and body of the devil and also obviously he was Anyone who was pagan was meant to, you know, worship him, which was the horns God and Pan And he was one of the gods was a very likable God very playful Nature loving sprightly God and then Also in the tarot, the devil represents physical manifestation. So you're caring more about stuff and outer world stuff rather than the inner work. So it's, you know, say if someone's really successful and made loads of money, And that's, you know, often is associated with the devil, like greed and kind of, being miserly and stingy and things like that, but it's where you think that that's the end of the story and that's the most important thing rather than going further and doing the inner work rather than just having achieved the outer, but also it can represent how are you stopping yourself from achieving what you need physically. for me, like, I'm a Capricorn, and my shadow side can be that Capricorns just care about money, and the Devil card is actually the Capricorn card, so I could be like that, but also the extra shadow side of it is living in a fear of, scarcity. So not having enough money, but that being the worst thing in the world. And that totally is for me. it's my deepest wound thing. Like I, my story is that's what broke my family up was money. And so I've always really hated money. it's not true. That isn't what broke, broke my family up and it would have happened anyway. which I have come to realize, but, it doesn't change the fact that the story that I had throughout my early years and into my adult life was that. Money was the root of all evil and it caused all these problems for me. So I really see that devil card as being very apt and relevant. But, yes. So, that 666 and the rose are the gateway to the center of the universe. And so I feel like, I've had the maiden, the mother and the crone phase. And now I'm in my wise woman crone phase, as a rose, which is a gateway to the center of the universe. And also in full bloom and that feels really special. it's an amazing extra perk to marrying the most gorgeous human being I've ever met. Beltane and Solstice are both celebrations of nature so the winter solstice is a celebration of humanity and community because you need each other, you know, to get through the winter months. Coming together, eating food, looking after each other, keeping warm, staying alive, and sharing stories, all these things. Giving each other presents, looking after each other, all the stuff that we do do for Christmas but has been, stolen by capitalism and kind of ruined to an extent. It is actually what we're meant to be doing at the solstice and it is a special time of year. Then the summer solstice is all about nature and about celebrating the earth and she's in full splendor and The son, who's the horned god, the masculine, is in full bloom at his height. And There's that bittersweet edge to the solstices in that with winter, it's the darkest, shortest day of the year. But the winter solstice from then on, you know that the days are getting longer. And so, in terms of the mythology of that, the Oak King kills the Holly King at Christmas. And the Oak King then takes over and then the summer solstice has this bittersweet edge where it's the longest day of the year and it's so hot and it's gorgeous. But this is the day where the Holly King slays the Oak King and the days will start getting shorter. So it's a weird, yeah, it's a weird mix of feelings for these days. But the solstice is the height of nature. And the height of, the power of Mother Earth. and Beltane's the beginning of that celebration where she's more the maiden and everything's just bouncing into life and the sun's just re emerged but it's still chilly. And then it reaches this full height of mother ness at summer solstice. So yeah, it's an amazing time of year and feels really special. It's been a special time to be settling into being married and getting to know each other as a married couple. yeah, it's really lovely. Like, Dizzle was holding my leg the other day going, this is my wife's leg. This leg belongs to my wife. so yeah, we We are very playful as a couple and, very silly and it does feel strange and not real that we're married, but it's such a wonderful thing. So, yeah, it definitely felt like nature gave me Dizzle as a gift and it felt like it gave me the most amazing magical wedding as a gift. And it's because I've been you know, got a relationship with her and I do a lot for her too. And I've given her four really mega massages by walking up and down the length and breadth of the land with my feet and with friends and with love and support and kindness and connecting to the people that we've met along the way and listened and talked and observed. And yeah, it just feels like the relationship to nature and Mother Earth just is a gift that keeps on giving and I can't encourage it enough. Because I'm blown away by what happens and, yeah, so it feels really special to be now a rose, which feels like one of the most beautiful, gifts that mother earth has given us is these beautiful flowers that smell divine. I don't know what I'm doing with my life. If you enjoy this podcast then please consider supporting the work I do by signing up to my Patreon page. where I ask for just the price of a brew or a piece of cake a month and every week you receive a podcast and I also offer fortnightly moon ceremonies for free. If you can afford it and are able to pay a little bit extra, then for 9 a month, Patreons get exclusive content, including the video recordings of the podcast and bonus material. But if you can't afford to pay anything, then that's absolutely okay, because someone else is paying and that means that you're able to get a free podcast. But if you are able to subscribe to the podcast, wherever you get your podcast from, leave a review and share the podcast with your friends. then that's also a huge help. the more that you spread the word, the better, and If you enjoy this podcast, then others may do too. So thank you for supporting me. I absolutely love doing this. I love creating the work that I do. And it's through your support that I'm able to carry on doing it. I don't know what I'm doing with my life. I'm going to now pull a rune and see what the universe wants me to talk about with you. See what the, uh, chaos is. Let's see. Wow. There you go. It's the blank rune. so for those in the video, you can see I've just coloured this one in silver. So this is the blank rune, which some people don't use the blank rune in their rune set, which is perfectly fair enough. It's not part of the rune set. Elder Firthak, runeset, it wouldn't have been used by the Vikings. they didn't, they didn't have spaces. There'd be no way of knowing if there was a blank rune because they wouldn't draw it. the runes were etchings that were scratched into wood or bone or stone. Apparently, I learned last night that actually they originally would be carved into stone by darkness and they were never allowed to see the light. And so they were done through feeling, through things like just feeling your way, doing it into stone. And you couldn't use metal, you had to use other stone. So you'd use a harder stone like flint against like sandstone or something, carve the runes in and then place the stone face down. So it never saw the light of day and you never saw it. No one ever saw it, which is also why some of them are so well preserved today. which is really interesting. I didn't know that. there's a guy here called Ray who would be amazing to interview. I don't know whether it would be possible because he's, yeah, I might try, but he can speak like, I think he's one of just a few people that can speak. ancient Norse. He studied ancient Norse and he can read it and he can speak it and he can speak, or has at one point been able to speak many, many, many languages. And yeah, he's fascinating. And I sat in the pub with him last night in the mermaid tavern whilst he told me all about runes. He's one of those people that you just sit and listen to. So if I got him on here, I'd probably ask him one question and that would be the whole podcast, but it would be fascinating. So the blank rune I have in my set, because for me, it represents the full, the full is the top of the tarot. It's the zero. It's everything. It's nothing. And I have talked about the full a bit already. And I talked about the inner and outer well, but I'm going to go through it again. because that's what the rune has asked me to do. And also, it sort of explains what's going on. What this is all about and what this works about, the zero is the top of the deck, which is two dimensional because it's on a card. But when you see it in three dimension, it's a ball, it's a sphere, and that's the whole universe. The whole universe is a sphere, I see it as a doughnut. I think that we're actually a doughnut because it will say. You know, it keeps expanding out, and I think the middle will be dying first, so it will actually be a donut. But also, I think that the way we experience ourselves, our reality, is we're born as this circle, as this whole ball that's perfect and whole and complete. And we're one with the universe. We don't feel any separation from us and our parents or the outer world. Our inner and outer world is one thing. And indigenous culture is like that. And when you're really in the moment and sort of in this magical flow, when you're in flow, which is what you're looking for as a performer, and just generally in life, you know, these moments where everything's just there and it's working and everything's perfect. That's when the inner and outer are one and we're born like this and our imaginary world and the outer world are all one thing. And then something happens that makes us split. It's interesting, actually, because as I say that this is the first time I've ever thought this. I wonder how much that happens in indigenous culture or whether that split never happens. Cause it seems like it doesn't, but what seems to happen in our world. is that we have a moment where we realize that we're separate and it will be some kind of judgment. And we've all got it. We've all done it. And the judgment will be something like, I'm not good enough, or I don't want to get it wrong, or I am wrong. I'm sad. So there's a few of them. There's not millions, there's probably 12 or something that most of them can end up being boiled back to being And this thing I'm saying about us being a guardian or a gatekeeper of the inner world, The guardian and gatekeeper is the judgment. So it just means that everything from then on is going through this vetting process of the judgment to check whether it's allowed in or out. So when you are, talking to people or trying to do something, interacting with the world, you've got this of outer world version of yourself, which is nicely groomed, knows how to do its makeup, knows how to do small talk and wear the right clothes and look normal. And you're sending it out like a puppet on a stick to protect you. And then you've got this gatekeeper, which is this judgment my one is I'm not good enough. so the way that it manifests in me is I'm a complete overachiever. You know, I do way too many things. I'm always out there doing things and putting myself out there and being really brave and fearless about stuff because. I feel like I need to validate myself. I need to justify my right to exist. And so I do that through, being. Great as I possibly can be. And it's, it's a bit much. you can't do anything about it. you can't get rid of your judgment. for me, what I'm learning to do and have learned to do is to love myself for it, not in a I love myself way. But to be okay, my judgment is always going to be, I'm not good enough. Can I love myself and parent myself enough to feel I have, done the work and I am good enough. I look after myself. I meditate. I have done loads. I have achieved loads and I feel like I've justified my existence, but also wasn't necessary. You didn't have to do it, but you were going to do it because that's your judgment, but it's okay. You know, you've done it. There's nothing to be ashamed of. you've smashed it out of the park. You've done all these things. Well done. And now you don't need to worry about it anymore, but it will still come up. It will still be the thing that when I feel left out or when I feel not invited to things or things happen that you're not included in. Yeah, you just need to learn to relax. And I always joke that it's the sphincter. So you've got this zero that's then been twisted in the middle, which makes the figure of eight, which is the symbol of infinity. And you've got the outer world that's infinite and you've got the inner world that's infinite. And then you've got this sphincter in the middle, which is called your ego or your gatekeeper or your judgment. That's the thing that's saying I'm not good enough. And, you know, we can't stop that from existing, but we can learn to relax it. So things like meditating, doing inner work, just, giving yourself lots of love and support means that you Learn to judge yourself less. And the more you do that, the more the inner and outer are able to flow into each other. And that's when things get really exciting. So that's when things are really creative. That's when you're putting work out there and not worrying about whether it's judged as to whether it's good enough. I mean, I'm going to go and perform at Glastonbury. in a few weeks and I'm scared. I'm totally scared. I haven't really performed for ages. I also know that it will be amazing, I know that it will be playful. I know it'll be fun. I know that it will be not easy, but it will be fine once I start doing it. nothing's out to get you. you're only judging yourself. It's just judging that you're not good enough and feeling like that's the worst thing that could possibly happen is that people might not like what you're doing. But it's going to be people absolutely off their heads, walking past you. You know, one in the morning and you're just doing something weird in a window and they might stop and watch you for a bit, but it's about you interacting with that person and meeting that person and being open and connected to those people through the window, rather than like, Oh, I really want to look good. I want to be good. That's all your judgment. So the fool is always is. Everything's it's favorite thing and it's stepping off the cliff into the unknown with absolute joy. That's the point of this podcast, the symbol of this podcast is the fool and, pilgrimage and all the things that I do require one to step off the cliff into the unknown and trust that when you fall, you fly and that's the magic of falling. And I have a teacher who has been teaching me Fooling for, well, since 2003. Maybe 2003 I started working with him. It was a long time ago, anyway, basically 20 years. And, he's amazing. I will be interviewing him on this podcast and also many other Fools, many of which, I've trained with, but actually the people that I'm performing with at Glastonbury, I perform at Shangri La, which is the naughty corner. It's the late night bit. So I can't wait to be there and go to that. it's always a lot of fun, but the woman I work with is called Naomi Smith and we worked with each other for a long time. A couple of days, the first year I worked at Glastonbury, we were together for a couple of days before someone said something about fooling and we both clocked that we were both fools, but from different lineages, which was fascinating because I didn't even know that existed. I thought there was just Jonathan's theater technique of fooling that's, you know, still in existence today because it's obviously very old. technique and tradition, but it slips through the cracks, which is really interesting because I'd say it's the most direct descendant of the shaman, like the shaman is the showman, because since we feared death and we had existential angst, as in we became conscious, which is where the thinking and judgment came, because obviously cows don't think. Fred about whether they're good enough or not. You know, you don't have like dogs worrying about whether they're going to do it. Right. They're just getting on with being dogs. Cows are just getting on with being cows. So we have this in a part and in fooling, we call this cane and able. So you've got Cain and Abel, the story that we all know. Cain is the thin king. It's a thin king. The thin king lives in a tower that just wants to learn all the knowledge and is reading all the books and is consuming and consuming all of this information. But he's just getting thinner and thinner and thinner and thinner. So the thin king is this Cain aspect, which is a plug in. It's an add on. We were there as animals going about our business, doing our thing. And then. Through, and the Garden of Eden story is a metaphor of this, us eating from the tree of knowledge, which is a metaphor of Eve's body choosing consciousness and intelligence as part of evolution. The woman then suffers in childbirth, and the men toil in the field, and I see that as like caring or worrying about, you know, The future in the past, which was something that didn't exist before. So suddenly we became concerned about things which we obviously weren't doing when we were animals. And that's then this Cain and Abel story, which evolves from that is that Cain's there, trying to impress God. He's doing all this stuff. He's inventing all these things Oh my God, look what I've made. I've created the Hedron Collider and I've built the M25 and I've, I've designed quantum theory and all of these things and God's like, Oh yeah, cool. Where's Abel? Oh, I don't know, he's just up in the fields, just, ugh. He just sits there playing the flute all day, he does nothing, he's so lazy. Yeah, cool, I'm just gonna go see Abel. And God goes off and sees Abel, and Cain's fuming. You can hear them laughing and hanging out and having a really nice time, and he's up there for days. And Cain's just sat there on his own, just furious, and just, I don't know, designing, some new twin tower architecture, Building a new processor for his computer and every time God comes in he's like look, look, look what I've done, look what I've done and God's just like yeah, cool, I'm just gonna go see Abel. So one day Cain's had enough and he invites his brother over for dinner and he murders him. Slits his throat and buries him under a big pile of soil. And obviously God knows straight away. And he next arrives, like, where's Abel? Okay, he's like, well, I don't know, I don't know what you're talking about. And God's like, you've killed your ability. You've killed your Abel. And that's what we do. So our thinking, which is a plug in, an add on, knows that you can live without it. Because you can. You could go back to being a cow, or a dog, or a monkey, whatever it is. We could go back to these animal like states. So this plug in knows that you can live without it. And so therefore, it spends its time convincing you It is you, and that you are solely it, and then it fears being murdered, it fears being attacked, and puts up all these defences to protect itself. But that's because the thin king doesn't know how to perform in a window at Glastonbury, because that's your Abel that does that. Abel is the silent part of you which just is. So being in a window with people looking at you to be able to just be, like a cow would be in a field And that's what you want as a performer is to be so relaxed that you're not putting on an act that you're being yourself, which is the fool when you're doing fooling and performance and you're really there and you're doing it well. You know, within two seconds of coming on the stage, people can read you. So you've just entered the stage and you're being yourself without any armor. And it means the audience will relax. They'll go with you and they'll let you take them on some mad adventure, flipping reality left, right, and center and doing all sorts of crazy things because they trust you because they can see that you're being authentic and you're being yourself. So the fall is, you know, Everything's his favorite thing. It's open. It's playful. And in being so it means that anything's possible. And so that's this direct descendant of the shaman. Cause as soon as we had existential angst and we realized that we could die and we had this fear, anyone who survived death, we'd always want to know how they did it. And so we'd ask these people like, how did you survive death? And you can't really explain it because anything to do with able is without language, because obviously dogs and horses don't speak. That's part of the plugin that comes with the thinking with the cane aspect. So it's metaphor, it's performance, it's dance, it's music, it's making love. It's just sitting and being, it's breathing. All the things that we can just do by being. This is the silent twin. Able is silent. So how, how to do these things, come from a place of just being. being and showing and that's what the showman, the shaman did. He would create these performances that tried to express what his fight in the fever had been like where he'd fought death and then those performances became sacred acts and that's where all performance came from, all art and creativity came from this place of trying to express fear of death and the unknown and people who'd survived it and how they'd managed it. the earliest artwork in caves is people's hands that they've blown ochre over. So there's these handprints and they're hundreds of thousands of years old. And these people have left their handprints there just to say, I was here, and you could put your hand on their hand and span that time. and connect with our ancestors and since realizing we were going to die, we have wanted to leave our mark and to be remembered. And that's what I mean about these parallel universes that I want to explore and keep finding more and more out about and looking into each individual's inner divine jewel and finding out all about them and what's going on in their inner world. Because everyone's completely different and everyone's We're all fools thinking that we know what's going on. No one knows what's going on. There's no manual. We're all making it up as we go along. I'm fascinated by it all. So the Fool is an amazing archetype and is one that I've worked with for many years and enjoy exploring. you're going to meet lots of fools on this journey with the podcast. Can't wait for you to meet them. So I think I might try and do that. Get a full on next week. that sounds like a good starting point and, yeah, so that's wonderful. I really. Just enjoy letting the universe lead. It's amazing. I just don't know what's gonna happen. Obviously stepping off the cliff into the unknown that's a wonderful thing and it makes you feel alive And that's what the fooling does as well You do these things and you put yourself out there and it's terrifying and sometimes it goes so wrong and it's really embarrassing and hideous But it doesn't kill you you're fine and you just keep doing it and you're like, oh actually it doesn't matter It doesn't matter if I've made a fool of myself It really doesn't. So don't worry what people think about you. It doesn't matter if you're not good enough or not. Who cares? By what standard are you being judged? Let yourself just go with the flow and enjoy everything like it's your favourite thing. Like you're the fool and you're back in that childlike innocence. I don't know what I'm doing with my life. one last thing left today before I go is to set the chaos crusade for the next week. And this is a practice that I actually began with the dark moon, I'm leading a course at the moment called the which fully you course, which is relevant to the fooling. Theme of the week. this course helps people to find their archetype in the fooling work that I do with Jonathan. We look at what our archetypes are. almost like typecasting. We've got a type that we are, but if you imagine that we're in a play that the whole of life is a play. There are only so many character types that exist. Then there are the archetypes, there are only so many archetypes and we're all derivatives of them. I spent a lot of time working on. What my archetype is. And, I've got a few, some people have a very clear one. Jonathan K who's my falling teacher. His oxide was very clearly the full. my ex-husband was a trickster diesel. My husband, my new husband is, Morpheus the dream Lord. He's very connected to the dreaming, but he's also faith, but then phase also part of the dreaming. they sort of go together. My archetype is the strum pet. But I've been working this time with the warrior, which has been amazing. I've had such an amazing. cycle. It's the fifth year that I've done it. and it's been incredible. Working with this archetype that was completely in my blind spot. And quite often our archetypes are in our blind spot. So working with this female warrior. And I've realized that I'm, strong powers, warrior or warrior strong, no strong putters warrior, strong pairs. Warrior is my overall archetype. I'm a fighter, you know, like mole Flanders or Nancy and Oliver twist that kind of vibe. pat butcher. I have, been doing some work with a grief people who are working on their archetypes and something that came up this time round is I noticed for the first time. How I find Gemini season really full on. Because it is the season of thinking and ideas and it's very quick and airy and I'm realizing more and more that I'm ADHD. As you heard in the conversation with Megan, this idea of autism, ADHD, which I'd never heard of before. It's been a while since we had that interview and I've been mulling it over and thinking about it. More. And I do think that I have got that. just things like trying to do small talk and stuff, I do find it so difficult. I've realized more. From being here on the island, that that's something that makes me feel really uncomfortable. And I try really hard, but I'm always like, oh, it was kicking myself and I'll watch it. Just say that. And I know most people do do that. I think we're all on the spectrum to be fair. that. because Gemini is. So hectic and has made me feel very, scattered and fast and crazy. I've started doing a practice every morning, which is something that I did many years ago. And it's from a book called the artist's way. Which if you haven't heard of it's brilliant. And I highly recommend it. It's quite religious sounding, but she says in it, that God's means good orderly direction. It doesn't have to mean the Christian God. It is for her, the Christian God, but she's saying it could be anything. for me, my faith is in, creativity. So I believe everything's an acts of creation. I feel like this is a play or a game or whatever it is that's going on. I feel like we don't know, and there's no way we can. But I trust that I'm in a game or a play. And that's why I'm playing my archetype as well as I can having a great time. And anything is possible. Life's a play. We're all actors and we're limitless. That's my belief. the reason why the artist way is so amazing is it's really good for helping people who are kind of creatively blocked to get you back in the flow again. And it's lots of creative exercises, which are not dissimilar to what I do, which fully I do lots of creative. Exercises that bypass the thinking and the cane aspects and get you to connect with your able cause your archetypes in the realm of the able, not in the realm of cane. what I've been doing to kind silence my thinking and my cane aspects during this very heady season is doing my morning pages, which is an exercise that comes from the artist's way, where every morning you write three pages. Now I keep a journal and I do that in the evening. And that's me saying, this is what I've done, what I'm up to, how I feel like I'm developing as a person, what I've been learning, what I've been, you know, what's happened throughout the day. I call that a mirror book. That's like reflecting on things. Morning pages are not meant to be re-read they're not meant to be good. They're actually meant to be where you get rid of that horrible voice. For me when I wake up in the morning. I slip out of dream and slipped straight into to do lists and berating myself or arguing with people in my head. And it's really annoying and I wish I didn't do it. And morning pages are an opportunity to get that nonsense out and just write it down clear out of your head. And be gone. So you're not meant to reread it. You can burn it and do every one of it, but it's just for you to kind clear that messy nonsense soup. Out of your brain, first thing in the morning. Fully cleaned and sparkling for the day. I've really enjoyed doing it. It's like a meditation. I do yoga and meditation every morning as well. But it just felt like in the Gemini season, I needed a bit extra. I needed an extra brush. So I've been doing it for three or four days now. And it takes ages it's really annoying to do because it takes a while, but you can use a smaller notebook I'm using. Uh, slightly too big a notebook. I think. But it does definitely help. So I highly recommend doing morning pages each day, as a way of just clearing your head of all of the dribble that's coming out. And if you a nice. Clean slate to step into the day with. I don't know what I'm doing with my life. So thank you. I think that's everything for me today, I just want to say thanks for listening, and I hope that you'll join again, and I'll see if I can dig out a fabulous fool for you to meet next week, with a little bit more of the nonsense in the chaos. Thank you, my darlings. See thee anon.